[Jan 4, Sat 7:15pm PST] KNYL-KSNA (IFR/10,000ft/130 KIAS)

[Cyrus]

Sorry for so many posts this morning, but I wanted to mention that I just added one more thing to the original note...

•I recommend that all those participating keep a window going with a PE chat session, and log on with your first name and callsign, e.g. "Cyrus_258E"

[Keith Smith]

Mark,

The X-Plane 10 stock Baron is a woeful under performer, but it still pulls an honest 160KTAS through a wide range of altitudes. Real world BE58 Barons are generally good for around 200KTAS. What is going on with your model?

Generally speaking, I'd encourage fly-ins to focus on a particular TAS and allow pilots to work out what to fly. Assuming pilots know what their rides can do, it can avoid issues where one particular model on one sim has a history of different performance than another, leading to a case where you don't have a common frame of reference for a discussion about it. Just my opinion! Case in point, if someone said, "we're having a Baron flyout!" then it could lead to issues, but if they say, "we're having a fly-out and we'll be planning around 160kKTAS" then the pilot has the exact info they need to take part.

All that said, unless you're planning on doing formation flying, it's not a requirement that everyone fly at the exact same speed, of course.

Btw, Cyrus, the IRC nicknames can get pretty long and awkward to type/read. I'd suggest losing the aircraft type and just use firstname_callsign. Again, just my opinion, you're welcome to do whatever floats your boat

[Keith Smith]

Cyrus,

I should've been more clear in my reply. The ARGUS SID is listed as 'not currently used' in our SOP because that is the current real world state of affairs. We try to avoid "PE-only" policies when it comes to route selection.

[Keith Smith]

Cyrus,

A quick word about aircraft performance (assuming this is NOT a turbocharged aircraft)....you said you were able to get 160ktas at "max speed" up at 12k, but you were going to change the fly-out speed to 140ktas because you didn't want to fly at max speed.

If the reason for not flying at max speed is because you're trying to simulate being 'kind' to the engines and the airplane. It's a common misconception (even among real world pilots) that max throttle = 100% power = bad. The simple fact is that up at 10-12k, max throttle is somewhere around 65-75% power. You're already being plenty kind to the engine. It is absolutely standard procedure to run with wide open throttle in a normally-aspirated piston aircraft above 8000ft, even with the mixture leaned out to best power, peak EGT, or even lean of peak for max economy.

If you pull the power back while you're up at 12k, it would be like pulling the power WAY, WAY back for an equivalent flight down at 3k.

Lastly, and I doubt this will be news to anyone, but just in case...KIAS and KTAS diverge considerably as you get higher. So, the 170kias at 10k may well translate to 200ktas depending on the OAT.

[Peter Grey]

I'm going to add a routing note here.

The CARGO DP does go into R2512 as previously mentioned. As a result there are several other initial routes I'd recommend. The HEEDS DP takes you directly onto V458 without going into any R airspace. However there is a minimum climb gradient on this SID which could be an issue depending on your aircraft.

Or you can forgo the SID altogether and just file BZA.V458.etc . This matches the piston real world routing you tend to see between NYL and SCT.

You don't have to force a SID into a route when it isn't needed especially when it goes somewhere you don't want to (R airspace).

[Cyrus]

Peter, I like your routing suggestion.

In fact, it's all good input.

I'm really tempted to delete the thread and start again I just don't want to drive other people crazy who might want a nice, easy IFR fly-out.

Let me see if I can put it altogether.....

[Keith Smith]

Cyrus, the discussion is good. As long as your first post contains everything people know to take part in the fly-in then you're all good. PG makes a great point about the SID.

[Mark Hargrove]

Mark,

The X-Plane 10 stock Baron is a woeful under performer, but it still pulls an honest 160KTAS through a wide range of altitudes. Real world BE58 Barons are generally good for around 200KTAS. What is going on with your model?

Good question. I was flying the Carenado BE58 in P3Dv2. I could barely achieve 142-3 KTAS level at 10K feet and my climb rate trying to get up to 12K was like 100 FPM @ 90 KIAS. I checked like 16 times to make sure I didn't have my gear down, or the flaps deployed or something silly like that. I don't have very much time in the Baron, so I had no idea if what I was experiencing was normal or not. I'll try with my Skymaster and see what happens -- it's a slightly slower airplane, but I'll see if I get similar (perhaps even worse) performance. I'm curious now if the P3Dv2 flight physics are modeled a little differently.

-M.

[Keith Smith]

What was your mixture setting, and it is a turbo or normally aspirated aircraft?

[Cyrus]

It's a common misconception (even among real world pilots) that max throttle = 100% power = bad. The simple fact is that up at 10-12k, max throttle is somewhere around 65-75% power. You're already being plenty kind to the engine. It is absolutely standard procedure to run with wide open throttle in a normally-aspirated piston aircraft above 8000ft, even with the mixture leaned out to best power, peak EGT, or even lean of peak for max economy....

Thanks Keith. I didn't realize this.

Ok folks, I have updated the original post: No SID, 150kts TAS cruise (for the leader, unless otherwise agreed in the chat while enrotue), and dancing girls/boys waiting for us at John Wayne............

Thanks again for the discussion. I've probably learned more in the last 24 hours on this discussion than I will on the fly-out itself

Ok, now I'm off to play Call of Duty with my testosterone-filled son...............