Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:53 am
Good idea to have the datarefs showing! That helps. Thanks!
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Professional ATC for Flight Simulators
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questions from prospective user(s)
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Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 8:30 am
Do you find that the dataref matched what the XP ATIS says, or is it being set by xEnviro, thus the ATIS and dataref don't agree?
Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 9:42 am
The X-Plane ATIS does not match the displayed weather when xEnviro is running. I don't recall for sure if the dataref baro number matches the X plane ATIS with xEnviro running, but I don't think it does.
Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:17 am
Their website says:
FEATURES
Real time meteorological data with a smooth refresh interval from 5 up to 60 minutes.
Atmosphere condition based on dynamic air parcel prediction model used for real aviation research and training.
Unlimited variability of cloud formations generated dynamically by the atmosphere model engine.
New realistic sky coloring based on phenomenal Perez sky model recognized as international standard.
Actual wind direction and speed for all levels, temperature, turbulence, icing, thunderstorms, windshear.
But maybe all that means is it alters the appearance of clouds, winds, and precip but doesn't change local pressure?
So not sure what the optimal solution is for us xEnviro guys. But the clouds do look MUCH more real than any other product I've tried. I've put the dataref up on my view and now i'll use that and see if its closer to what ATC is reporting. This last flight it was within 00.02. Maybe that's the best idea.
thanks for the input guys.
FEATURES
Real time meteorological data with a smooth refresh interval from 5 up to 60 minutes.
Atmosphere condition based on dynamic air parcel prediction model used for real aviation research and training.
Unlimited variability of cloud formations generated dynamically by the atmosphere model engine.
New realistic sky coloring based on phenomenal Perez sky model recognized as international standard.
Actual wind direction and speed for all levels, temperature, turbulence, icing, thunderstorms, windshear.
But maybe all that means is it alters the appearance of clouds, winds, and precip but doesn't change local pressure?
So not sure what the optimal solution is for us xEnviro guys. But the clouds do look MUCH more real than any other product I've tried. I've put the dataref up on my view and now i'll use that and see if its closer to what ATC is reporting. This last flight it was within 00.02. Maybe that's the best idea.
thanks for the input guys.
Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:23 am
I flew in the event last Sunday and I am pretty sure I was messing it up for others as I had 30 on the nose and was slower than the other Eclipse jets. I was asked multiple times to verify my speed from the controllers. Also got "maintain best speed" a bunch of times.
Sadly I will be forced to turn off xEnviro for future PE flights...
Its a known issue but what is also known is the xEnviro group are not doing anything about it.
Sadly I will be forced to turn off xEnviro for future PE flights...
Its a known issue but what is also known is the xEnviro group are not doing anything about it.
Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:51 am
Greetings, all --
I'm a long-time VATSIM user and semi-serious simmer (with 0.0 hours real-world PIC) who just decided yesterday to give PilotEdge a try. Keith, you might remember me; I was one that you were bouncing ideas off of back in 2010 or so, when you were thinking of putting this together (although I assume I was one of many, so, if the name's not familiar, I won't take it personally). I'm elated to see, so many years after that, that you've put together such a successful network. The expansion you've undergone since the outset is a good sign. I hope that things are going as well for you under the surface as they seem to be from outside -- you've clearly earned it.
After my first venture into the PE skies last night, I have three questions:
(1) is there a list somewhere of the controllers that are online, and, is it generally okay to initiate text chats with them or is that frowned upon due to workload or other preferences of a more professional environment (than say, VATSIM, which is one part professional and one or two parts social/casual)? (sub-question -- on average, how many different controllers are online working simultaneously? it seemed to me I was hearing one guy work about a dozen different positions last night, and I'm just curious as to how many ATC guys/gals are usually on at a given time, if that's something the network cares to divulge.)
(2) if the same person is working John Wayne Ground and John Wayne Tower, and I forget to switch my radio from the Ground to the Tower frequency when handed off prior to takeoff clearance, will this be obvious to the controller that I'm still tuned to the Ground channel, or would I probably proceed on with everyone unaware of the mistake? (I did it right last night, so far as I am aware -- but I'm just curious!)
(3) aside from switching from the "top-down" coverage model employed in VATSIM (where you very, very often do everything on the Center controller's frequency) to a model where you switch from real-world frequency to real-world frequency as your situation merits, what other common learning curves do people typically have, and what common pitfalls do they tend to trip into, when coming over to PilotEdge from a more casual network like VATSIM? And I mean aside from knowing most of the basics of VFR and IFR procedure -- I ask this as a pretty serious flight simmer who can generally handle the gamut of procedures found in a typical VFR or IFR (both GA and commercial) flight.
FYI, I'm going to be at FlightSimCon this weekend and will definitely pop into PilotEdge's booth and say hello.
(EDIT: question (4): was it obvious, if the controller I talked to is here, that I was nervous as hell last night? never been so rattled just doing circuits in a single-engine eggbeater. LOL!)
I'm a long-time VATSIM user and semi-serious simmer (with 0.0 hours real-world PIC) who just decided yesterday to give PilotEdge a try. Keith, you might remember me; I was one that you were bouncing ideas off of back in 2010 or so, when you were thinking of putting this together (although I assume I was one of many, so, if the name's not familiar, I won't take it personally). I'm elated to see, so many years after that, that you've put together such a successful network. The expansion you've undergone since the outset is a good sign. I hope that things are going as well for you under the surface as they seem to be from outside -- you've clearly earned it.
After my first venture into the PE skies last night, I have three questions:
(1) is there a list somewhere of the controllers that are online, and, is it generally okay to initiate text chats with them or is that frowned upon due to workload or other preferences of a more professional environment (than say, VATSIM, which is one part professional and one or two parts social/casual)? (sub-question -- on average, how many different controllers are online working simultaneously? it seemed to me I was hearing one guy work about a dozen different positions last night, and I'm just curious as to how many ATC guys/gals are usually on at a given time, if that's something the network cares to divulge.)
(2) if the same person is working John Wayne Ground and John Wayne Tower, and I forget to switch my radio from the Ground to the Tower frequency when handed off prior to takeoff clearance, will this be obvious to the controller that I'm still tuned to the Ground channel, or would I probably proceed on with everyone unaware of the mistake? (I did it right last night, so far as I am aware -- but I'm just curious!)
(3) aside from switching from the "top-down" coverage model employed in VATSIM (where you very, very often do everything on the Center controller's frequency) to a model where you switch from real-world frequency to real-world frequency as your situation merits, what other common learning curves do people typically have, and what common pitfalls do they tend to trip into, when coming over to PilotEdge from a more casual network like VATSIM? And I mean aside from knowing most of the basics of VFR and IFR procedure -- I ask this as a pretty serious flight simmer who can generally handle the gamut of procedures found in a typical VFR or IFR (both GA and commercial) flight.
FYI, I'm going to be at FlightSimCon this weekend and will definitely pop into PilotEdge's booth and say hello.
(EDIT: question (4): was it obvious, if the controller I talked to is here, that I was nervous as hell last night? never been so rattled just doing circuits in a single-engine eggbeater. LOL!)
Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:10 am
Rob,
Your name does ring a bell. I just searched my personal gmail and found our interactions from 2010.
1) there isn't a public list of controllers online. Controller lists only exist with other online networks because you have to know which positions are online to know which ones to choose. Since our radio system models the real world, there are no controller lists. There isn't a mechanism for you to PM the controllers. If you want to chat with other pilots and some of the controllers socially, the Discord server is absolutely the best place to do that. On average, one person works the Western US position, while 1-2 controllers work ZLA. This increases during training or during events, but otherwise, that's the normal staffing configuration. This means you'll hear the same controller on many freqs (which happens in real life on a smaller scale when one controller works clearance, ground and tower during quiet hours at a Class C/D field).
2) Yes, the controller should catch it if you don't swap freqs. There will be times when it's busy and they might not catch it, but by and large we do catch it.
3) Good question. A few challenges ensue for people coming over from other networks;
a) inability to use voice CTAF correctly at non-towered fields. Since voice CTAF is sketchy to non-existent on other networks, people rely on text at non-towered fields. They're also not aware that 122.80 isn't the only CTAF freq in use...there's quite a few freqs, so it's important to check the published CTAF for the field you're using.
b) unfamiliar with the concept of controller working multiple frequencies where you can't hear all the other pilots who the controller is working. This absolutely happens in real life (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_CNPPIdwbw, pay careful attention and take note of how many controller calls seem to go unanswered because the pilots are on another freq, or are too far away to be heard). As a result, if you're wanting to talk to approach and that controller has just issued an IFR clearance, you can bet that a pilot is reading back the clearance on another freq, so until you hear "readback correct," there is little point in calling them.
c) one of the few things we do which is specific to PilotEdge is have repeaters on the ground/tower freqs within ZLA, and separately, within WUS. This reduces the blocks during the phases of flight where there are the longest and most frequent cold calls to ATC.
d) unfamiliar with how to find a frequency for a given facility, or the fact that some airports have multiple ground and tower freqs (SNA, for example, has west/east ground/tower freqs)
e) unfamiliar with the jurisdiction of ground/tower/approach controllers. If you're 30 miles out for landing at a Class C airport, you typically call the approach controller, not tower. This distinction is lost on VATSIM where the roles get muddied. Here, even if it's the same PERSON working both, the ROLES are separated by frequency, so if you're calling the wrong role, you'll hear about it.
f) this one is more subjective, but people have some very 'relaxed' phraseology from the other networks. "Socal, uhhhh, THIS IS uhhhh Cessna Skyhawk November 123AB, WITH YOU....approximately 14.5 nautical miles north.....northwes.....southeast of the P D Z VOR..." at which point I've already started screaming at my screen, yelling "GET ON WITH IT." The call should've been, "Socal, Skyhawk 123AB, 14 northwest Paradise, request advisories to John Wayne," or something like that. Our controllers do get very busy at times with a bunch of planes doing approaches at a wide variety of fields, there just isn't a whole lot of time for gross inefficiency. There's no pretty way of putting it, but just like the real world, when it's busy, the controller' tolerance for grossly inefficient radio calls is limited.
g) the voice latency is next to nothing. You can (and should) respond without much delay to calls. On VATSIM it's typical to have lengthy delays between calls and responses. In the real world on a busy freq, there's very little dead time. Pay attention to the controller cadence and try to match it to the extent possible. If so, they'll love you long time and you'll be practically invisible, which is the goal...just like real life.
That's about all I can think of!
Your name does ring a bell. I just searched my personal gmail and found our interactions from 2010.
1) there isn't a public list of controllers online. Controller lists only exist with other online networks because you have to know which positions are online to know which ones to choose. Since our radio system models the real world, there are no controller lists. There isn't a mechanism for you to PM the controllers. If you want to chat with other pilots and some of the controllers socially, the Discord server is absolutely the best place to do that. On average, one person works the Western US position, while 1-2 controllers work ZLA. This increases during training or during events, but otherwise, that's the normal staffing configuration. This means you'll hear the same controller on many freqs (which happens in real life on a smaller scale when one controller works clearance, ground and tower during quiet hours at a Class C/D field).
2) Yes, the controller should catch it if you don't swap freqs. There will be times when it's busy and they might not catch it, but by and large we do catch it.
3) Good question. A few challenges ensue for people coming over from other networks;
a) inability to use voice CTAF correctly at non-towered fields. Since voice CTAF is sketchy to non-existent on other networks, people rely on text at non-towered fields. They're also not aware that 122.80 isn't the only CTAF freq in use...there's quite a few freqs, so it's important to check the published CTAF for the field you're using.
b) unfamiliar with the concept of controller working multiple frequencies where you can't hear all the other pilots who the controller is working. This absolutely happens in real life (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_CNPPIdwbw, pay careful attention and take note of how many controller calls seem to go unanswered because the pilots are on another freq, or are too far away to be heard). As a result, if you're wanting to talk to approach and that controller has just issued an IFR clearance, you can bet that a pilot is reading back the clearance on another freq, so until you hear "readback correct," there is little point in calling them.
c) one of the few things we do which is specific to PilotEdge is have repeaters on the ground/tower freqs within ZLA, and separately, within WUS. This reduces the blocks during the phases of flight where there are the longest and most frequent cold calls to ATC.
d) unfamiliar with how to find a frequency for a given facility, or the fact that some airports have multiple ground and tower freqs (SNA, for example, has west/east ground/tower freqs)
e) unfamiliar with the jurisdiction of ground/tower/approach controllers. If you're 30 miles out for landing at a Class C airport, you typically call the approach controller, not tower. This distinction is lost on VATSIM where the roles get muddied. Here, even if it's the same PERSON working both, the ROLES are separated by frequency, so if you're calling the wrong role, you'll hear about it.
f) this one is more subjective, but people have some very 'relaxed' phraseology from the other networks. "Socal, uhhhh, THIS IS uhhhh Cessna Skyhawk November 123AB, WITH YOU....approximately 14.5 nautical miles north.....northwes.....southeast of the P D Z VOR..." at which point I've already started screaming at my screen, yelling "GET ON WITH IT." The call should've been, "Socal, Skyhawk 123AB, 14 northwest Paradise, request advisories to John Wayne," or something like that. Our controllers do get very busy at times with a bunch of planes doing approaches at a wide variety of fields, there just isn't a whole lot of time for gross inefficiency. There's no pretty way of putting it, but just like the real world, when it's busy, the controller' tolerance for grossly inefficient radio calls is limited.
g) the voice latency is next to nothing. You can (and should) respond without much delay to calls. On VATSIM it's typical to have lengthy delays between calls and responses. In the real world on a busy freq, there's very little dead time. Pay attention to the controller cadence and try to match it to the extent possible. If so, they'll love you long time and you'll be practically invisible, which is the goal...just like real life.
That's about all I can think of!
Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:17 pm
I'll answer question number 4 since I was the controller that worked you last night. Pattern at KSNA. I can pretty quickly tell if someone is brand new and are very nervous on frequency, I did not detect either from you last night and your flying was perfectly fine! Also worth mentioning, if you were unaware, every minute of audio on the network is recorded. If you go to the Pilot Center on the home page and go to audio recordings, you'll be able to listen to your flight if you like. The system also gets rid of the dead frequency time and chops the audio file down so there is no dead air.
I'll also be at Flightsimcon this weekend. Good chance you'll find me at the Pilotedge booth.
I'll also be at Flightsimcon this weekend. Good chance you'll find me at the Pilotedge booth.
Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:35 pm
Haha. Thanks for that, Shawn. I was annoyed at myself for needing you to repeat the initial taxi instructions, and I was super nervous on my first approach because I knew you had jet traffic coming in right over top me on the parallel. But I think I held it together okay after that. 
I appreciate the kind words and I'll see you this weekend!
I appreciate the kind words and I'll see you this weekend!Re: questions from prospective user(s)
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:08 am
Hey there,
I am very fascinated by the whole PE approach to ATC; watching all these awesome PilotEdge videos on Youtube really do make simming realistic as much as it can for sim enthusiasts like me.
I have been searching the forums and I am trying to figure out if I can get a custom name like my own username in the Pilot Roster. I do see real names in it at the moment, and I am wondering will it be possible to have a pseudonym once I become a paid member of PE.
Thank You
Skyfox
I am very fascinated by the whole PE approach to ATC; watching all these awesome PilotEdge videos on Youtube really do make simming realistic as much as it can for sim enthusiasts like me.
I have been searching the forums and I am trying to figure out if I can get a custom name like my own username in the Pilot Roster. I do see real names in it at the moment, and I am wondering will it be possible to have a pseudonym once I become a paid member of PE.
Thank You
Skyfox