approach clearance

[466sbastien]

Good afternoon,

During my i7 test, I received the VOR / DME (Avalon) approach clearance about 7 miles from SXC. I joined the R-352 of SXC without passing above SXC.
Il passed the test, but I wanted to be sure that I did it the right way, as during a practice flight of the I2 test I did not cross OCN and the controller in charge explained me that the VOR was part of the approach and the clearance.

The question is : Is the approach has to start from the VOR Beacon ?

[Mark Hargrove]

SXC is not the initial approach fix (IAF) -- that's RIGLI -- so I do not believe the approach has to start by overflying SXC VOR. As long as you're established on the 352 radial before you cross RIGLI outbound, I think you're fine.

[Ryan B]

I agree with Mark for the most part... but confirm you're flying the VOR/DME-B approach? And you were doing it full procedure or getting vectored? Which direction did you come from and what did the approach clearance sound like?

[Mark Hargrove]

He said he was doing the I7 rating, so he would have been flying the KAVX VOR/DME, he would have been getting vectors, and he would have been approaching SXC from (roughly) the SE when cleared for the approach.

What's interesting is that I remember this as the VOR/DME B approach also, but there is no such approach at KAVX. There is a VOR or GPS-A approach, and a VOR/DME or GPS-B approach now.

[Ryan B]

Sorry I didn't look it up it's been years since I flew those...

So what did approach clearance sound like? If the clearance stated to cross SXC at or above 3400 the you'd fly to SXC.... Otherwise they could vector you towards the 352R I guess.. Or VTF of course. Or direct RIGLI for the GPS -B...

And btw it is the VOR/DME- B ... They just put the -B at the end because it's also a GPS B. You wouldn't ask for the VOR /DME or GPS-B approach. A letter will be added if there's more circling only approaches... Doesn't matter if the type of approach is different or not.

[Mark Hargrove]

>> And btw it is the VOR/DME- B ... They just put the -B at the end because it's also a GPS B

Ah! That makes sense -- thanks!

[466sbastien]

As far as I can remember the clearance was "clear for the VOR/DME Approach" (I could have been vectored before). And then I asked myself : Do I need to cross SXC ? as I was heading 200° I should have make the PT. But as RIGLI is the IAF, I guessed ( know I shouldn't) I could initiate my turn and join R-352 few miles before RIGLI. But I'm still not sure that I did right.

[Ryan B]

So I finally looked up the I7.

The routing is SLI V21 SXC

I'm not sure if at one time SXC was the IAF and it isn't now, but it is on the V21 airway. I'm not an instrument pilot so maybe I should stop guessing how the pilot would fly this (I am an ATCer so that's why I commented on the approach naming scheme). But if ATC just said "cleared VOR/DME-B approach" , assuming you're on V21, you could approach SXC from the NE (on v21), and prior to it, turn to a 320 heading or whatever to intercept the SXC352R outbound. Since the controller didn't specifically clear you direct RIGLI, I think they presume you'd fly to SXC to get on the outbound radial. Now from my reading you wouldn't need to technically fly over SXC (it would be a fly by point)... but you wouldn't go direct to RIGLI from far off the airway either.

In a nutshell you'd turn early to compensate for wind/speed/angle etc, you'd not fly over SXC, but turn to join the 352R outbound to RIGLI, then you could do the PT. But if they cleared you 10 out from SXC I wouldn't take that approach clearance as "I'm going to proceed to RIGLI PPOS"

One other note, on my GNS530W the track has you fly by SXC, starting the turn early (a MSG would say something like "STEEP TURN AHEAD"). You don't have to fly a holding pattern before flying to RIGLI via the 352R.

What do the pro's think here?

[Peter Grey]

Ryan has it right. Absent a clearance to specifically go to RIGLI you should execute the approach from SXC (via the feeder route).

An early turn lead to allow for proper intercept of the SXC352R is allowable (and is recommended).

From AIM 5-4-6:

b. If a feeder route to an IAF begins at a fix located along the route of flight prior to reaching the holding fix, and clearance for an approach is issued, a pilot should commence the approach via the published feeder route; i.e., the aircraft would not be expected to overfly the feeder route and return to it. The pilot is expected to commence the approach in a similar manner at the IAF, if the IAF for the procedure is located along the route of flight to the holding fix.

In this specific case the holding fix is the KAVX airport (as that is your clearance limit). Ignore the obvious implications on how that doesn't make any sense.

[Ryan B]

Ignore the obvious implications on how that doesn't make any sense.

Hehe!

Thanks for your input Mr Professional Pilot (on the entire subject!)